Illusory Wall

Yorga · Post by **Yorga** » 02 Oct 2007, 13:48

This is the deck I had with me yesterday in Bonn, which I promised to post here. Comments, as always, very welcome.

Deck Name : Illusory Wall
Author : RocketEddy
Description :
This wall deck features two superstars - Ivan and Joaquina, whose specials compliment each other wonderfully. The idea is to get a gun in hand with Ivan's special (hopefully with concealed weapon too), then tool up on lots of really fancy bits and pieces with Joaquina. Powerbases, rack, etc can be used for cross-table negotiations, and Ivan's special means you can tool up with whatever is most suitable for the table.

There's really a lot in the deck concept, which makes card slots very hard to find - and hence relying on permanents wherever possible.

Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 4 max: 10 average: 7.67
4x Ivan Krenyenko (10) :ANI: :CHI: :FOR: :POT: :obf: Ravnos (group 2)
4x Joaquina Amaya (6) :ANI: :CHI: :FOR: Ravnos (group 2)
2x Kostantin, Baro of the Caravan (9) :ANI: :CHI: :FOR: :cel: :dom: Ravnos (group 2)
1x Sarisha Veliku (6) :ANI: :FOR: :chi: :dom: Ravnos (group 2)
1x Sennuwy, The Promoter (4) :ani: :chi: :for: Ravnos (group 2)

Library [90 cards]

Master [15]
1x Arcanum Chapterhouse, Alexandria
4x Blood Doll
1x Elysium: Sforzesco Castle
1x Erciyes Fragments, The
1x Fame
1x Heidelberg Castle, Germany
1x Park Hunting Ground
1x Path of Lilith, The
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
1x Powerbase: Chicago
1x Powerbase: Washington, D.C.
1x Rack, The

Action [7]
1x Army of Rats
3x Guard Duty
3x Mass Reality

Equipment [8]
3x .44 Magnum
1x Heart of Nizchetus
1x Palatial Estate
1x Shilmulo Tarot
1x Sport Bike
1x Treasured Samadji

Retainer [3]
3x Raven Spy

Action Modifier [6]
6x Dawn Operation

Combat [31]
8x Carrion Crows
8x Concealed Weapon
10x Rolling with the Punches
5x Terror Frenzy

Reaction [14]
6x Cats' Guidance
6x Forced Awakening
2x On the Qui Vive

Action/Reaction [6]
6x Draba

Crafted with : Anarch Revolt Deck Builder. [Tue Oct 02 13:46:51 2007]

Irratonalys · Post by **Irratonalys** » 02 Oct 2007, 14:41

hmmm , ravnos with mass reality , im planning a similar deck with group 4
i suppose you want to play terror frenzy at basic most of the time right? so superior animalismn isent that important.....then you could think about playing 1 gabrin and 1 Etienne Fauberge instead of the konstantins.
and i would swap some (3-4) rolling with the punches for apparitions and far fatuus, also MR does not start at stealth , you could replace the dawn operation with occlusion for a bit of stealth and a last ditch dodge.

Pyro · Post by **Pyro** » 02 Oct 2007, 14:47

Superior ANI for terror frenzy only forces Vampires to burn an additional blood for combat cards. This is not the wanted effect I think.

Yorga · Post by **Yorga** » 02 Oct 2007, 15:59

correct - basic TF effectively turns the magnums' maneuver into an inferior "set range" ability, and thus is my defense against IG. The ANI version can be ok against long-range combat decks, but that's just a bonus.

That's only 5 ani cards though, whereas there are another 14 animalism cards where I really do want the ANI.

I did play with stealth in earlier incarnations of this deck - but 1-2 stealth on a MR just isn't enough. Once the first action that gets blocked results in aggravated environmental damage (much harder to prevent than strikes) people tend to stop blocking. I can even play it at inferior deliberately to give them the choice if they're blocking something I don't want in the ash-heap.

"I don't want to hurt you, but I will. I could play aggravated carrion crows, but I'd rather have x and I'm sure you'd rather keep your vampire..."

the scavenger · Post by **the scavenger** » 02 Oct 2007, 17:50

How do you plan to get into combat? You have zero rushes, an IMHO rather weak intercept module and plan to spend quite heavily on vampires and toys - smells like a field day for any reasonably fast stealth bleeder.

No ousting module either, bleed for one with 6+ caps doesn't sound like a great plan to me.

Sorry, but I don't think this is tournament material.

sk.

Yorga · Post by **Yorga** » 04 Oct 2007, 10:06

I just love it when people say "this is rubbish, but I wont make specific suggestions to help you improve it" :p

I agree it does look like a very weak intercept module, but in practice I've found it works quite well. Maybe it's the metas I played in, maybe it's just luck. But here's my attempt at explaining it anyway.

Firstly, I expect to be blocked at least once quite early. This gives a good opportunity to a) cycle into some permanents, b) discourage further blocking, and c) equip a weapon.

It should be obvious very quickly how much stealth you can expect from a predator - if it's a lot of stealth and not-so-much combat, then the priorities for Ivan's special clearly gives you the sport bike on the first turn he's available. With either another permanent or a cats' guidance (that's 12 cards - not unreasonable to expect with the standard discards plus the extra discard his ability brings each turn) that's 2 intercept. So a bleeder plays e.g. lost in crowds + 1 other for 3 stealth. With a draba (harder to get, I admit, but once you start cycling it gets easier) they would need to find *another* 3 stealth - which they almost never do. So you can play all the combat you've accumulated and cycle into more untap/intercept. Block denial is more of a problem, but when the stealth is dropped to zero you can always use a different minion.

If you can't block, you don't try. Sure, it's painful, but you dont *need* a magnum against stealth decks, so you can lose ~10 pool before you start worrying about leaving the table.

The hardest part is starting up. It's a bit like rolling a snowball down a hill; it sticks a bit at first, but with a little push once it's going it gets easier and easier. Once the locations are generating 2-3 pool per turn, you can even afford to let one or two bleeds through each turn without worrying too much. Heart of Nizcheating is awesome. HoN + Shilmulo Tarot is just plain sick.

I dont remember ever using Kostantin, so I might switch him out for more weenies. It probably needs another 2 draba too, but I'm not sure what to take out for it.

Yorga · Post by **Yorga** » 04 Oct 2007, 10:12

incidentally, not all ousting consists of dominate bleed

fame in torpor (even if it's my own weenie) = 1
army of rats = 1
arcanum chapterhouse (you can almost guarantee somebody has a HG) = 1
path of lilith = 1
bleed with treasured samadji = 2
heidelburg = a second treasured samadji = 2

SO that makes up to 8 per turn, without the traditional dunk-a-famed-weenie thing. Sure, it's all very speculative, can be burned/blocked/etc etc, but as with the blocking above it gets more reliable over time. It's just a question of surviving long enough by one means or another.

"hello mr weenie potence crosstable person. I'll give you 4 pool to kill this stealth bleeder on my right... no? How about 6?"

Sven · Post by **Sven** » 04 Oct 2007, 10:48

Yorga wrote: fame in torpor (even if it's my own weenie) = 1

Fame on your own weenie? You can play Fame only on a ready vampire, so for this to work you would have to
lose 3 pool first when someone dunks your weenie into torpor...

Mateusz · Post by **Mateusz** » 04 Oct 2007, 10:51

Id beef up the reaction module a little more. Here is my sugestion:

Drop the Guard Duties and 1 of the cats guidance to get in 2x Instinctive Reaction and 2x Sense the Savage Way.

Sense the Savage Way [LotN:C]
Cardtype:Reaction
Discipline: Animalism
Requires a vampire with capacity above 6.
[ani] +1 intercept.
[ANI] Usable only by a tapped vampire. This vampire untaps and attempts to block.

The addition of 2 Delaying Tactics wouldnt be bad. Perhaps drop 2 of the Skins. Split remaining preventers into 4 Skin, 2 Soak and 2 Hidden Strenght
Id also swap the PB: Washington for a PB: Montreal and the Elysium for an intercept Location, WMRH Talk radio would suit this deck the most i think.

Yorga · Post by **Yorga** » 04 Oct 2007, 11:10

Sven wrote:Fame on your own weenie? You can play Fame only on a ready vampire, so for this to work you would have to
lose 3 pool first when someone dunks your weenie into torpor...

Sorry, I didnt mean to cause confusion. Naturally I wouldnt fame my own vamp, that would be foolish. The comment in () was just a reference to if somebody else famed and was able to torp my weenie, I could just leave them sitting in torpor and it would probably help me in the long run.

Mateusz wrote:Id beef up the reaction module a little more. Here is my sugestion:

Drop the Guard Duties and 1 of the cats guidance to get in 2x Instinctive Reaction and 2x Sense the Savage Way.

I think guard duties are much stronger than IR personally - I really dislike the "predator only" restriction. If I was going to change them with anything it would probably be more draba. Sense the Savage Way could be nice, but isn't legal yet. Soon... but not yet

Mateusz wrote:The addition of 2 Delaying Tactics wouldnt be bad. Perhaps drop 2 of the Skins.

Very true. I assume by "skin" you mean RwtP. Whilst I dont like the idea of less prevent, but extra vote defence in the absence of any eagles' sight is a very good point.

Mateusz wrote:Split remaining preventers into 4 Skin, 2 Soak and 2 Hidden Strenght

I don't understand why you'd do that? I intend to give anybody who blocks me aggravated damage - so Soak is a bad idea. Hidden Strength has no advantage over RwtP beyond a press I don't really need and could result in me losing a LOT more blood against combat decks. I also find RwtP more flexible than Skin (I assume you mean skin of steel, not skin of rock) - free against weak combat/environmental, same cost & effect at superior.

Mateusz wrote:Id also swap the PB: Washington for a PB: Montreal and the Elysium for an intercept Location, WMRH Talk radio would suit this deck the most i think.

I might swap the elysium for a montreal - it's always a good card. Personally, I love the cross-table deals you can make with washington (like the one in my earlier post) without needing to spend an action getting it back. A 'cept location might be good too, but I dont think I'd take out washington.

the scavenger · Post by **the scavenger** » 04 Oct 2007, 13:04

Yorga wrote:I just love it when people say "this is rubbish, but I wont make specific suggestions to help you improve it" :p

Point taken, but considering this is the tournament deck forum, I have hardly any specific suggestions apart from addressing the mentioned shortcomings (as I see them, of course).

Anyway, here's the one not covered by "hardly any":
Add Smiling Jack x2, up the number of wake effects so you can put pressure on your prey, put in some Freak Drives (for the same reason) - and ditch the Powerbases, the Guard Dutys, Mass Reality and 2 Concealeds to make room.

There! ;-)

sk.

Mateusz · Post by **Mateusz** » 04 Oct 2007, 13:55

Yorga wrote:
Mateusz wrote:Split remaining preventers into 4 Skin, 2 Soak and 2 Hidden Strenght
I don't understand why you'd do that? I intend to give anybody who blocks me aggravated damage - so Soak is a bad idea. Hidden Strength has no advantage over RwtP beyond a press I don't really need and could result in me losing a LOT more blood against combat decks. I also find RwtP more flexible than Skin (I assume you mean skin of steel, not skin of rock) - free against weak combat/environmental, same cost & effect at superior.

Sorry, i must have overlooked the dawn ops. Anyways, id swap those for mirror images, because you wont get your actions blocked but get those permacetps and so on into play. Doing agg. dmg does scare too many Decks that can block you (dodges, prevention, S.CE and so on).

Murat · Post by **Murat** » 04 Oct 2007, 14:28

You play 8 Conceald for 3 Magnums and you have stealth to equip them, that is to much. I think 5 will do it and than you can play 2 Intercept Locations and a Fortune Teller Shop

Murat · Post by **Murat** » 04 Oct 2007, 14:59

Yorga wrote:fame in torpor (even if it's my own weenie) = 1
army of rats = 1
arcanum chapterhouse (you can almost guarantee somebody has a HG) = 1
path of lilith = 1
bleed with treasured samadji = 2
heidelburg = a second treasured samadji = 2

SO that makes up to 8 per turn, without the traditional dunk-a-famed-weenie thing. Sure, it's all very speculative, can be burned/blocked/etc etc, but as with the blocking above it gets more reliable over time. It's just a question of surviving long enough by one means or another.

"hello mr weenie potence crosstable person. I'll give you 4 pool to kill this stealth bleeder on my right... no? How about 6?"

Ok, nice try but I think your oustingmodule is to slow. Bevor you get all this cards the stealthbeeding deck in front of you is also sitting behind you. And i can imagine a lot of more decks doing like this. For tournament play you need the oppertunity to oust someone when you have the chance to. I mean the pooldamage you do is countable " Hey i´m loosing 4 pool next turn, but I have a bloodgain of 3 per turn, so i live the next 8 Rounds". Some cards like Fata Morgana will be good in your deck. Of Curse that means you have to put some other nice cards out, but if you want to make tables instead of VPs you have to be more aggresive.