Gestern kam es zu einer kleinen Meinungsverschiedenheit bei uns, ein Spieler war der Auffassung das man mit einem Dodge den Press einer Strike-Karte umgehen kann, in dem Fall einem aid from Bats:
Aid from Bats
Type: Combat
Requires: Animalism
[ani] Strike: 1R damage, with an optional maneuver.
[ANI] As above, with an optional press.
Ich bin mir eigentlich ziemlich sicher das dies Falsch ist, aber nochmal zur Sicherheit: Wer hatte in dem Fall recht?
Dodge vs. Strike X with optional press
- ghost of extrala
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Die Regeln sagen:
6.4.5. Strike Effects
6.4.5. Strike Effects
Meine Argumentation wäre, der Dodge schützt dich vor dem was deinem Vampire oder deinen Retainern oder deinen Equipment schadet. Der Press und das Maneuver sind aber Benefits für den Vampir, der die Karte ausspielt, können also nicht durch den Dodge "preventet" werden..A dodge strike deals no damage, but it protects the dodging minion and his possessions from the effects of the opposing strike. Retainers are not protected, however. A dodge is effective at any range. A dodge protects even from the effects of a strike done with first strike. (A dodge is a strike, even though it is solely defensive. It represents the activity of the minion during that pair of strikes.)
Luck is not a factor.
Hope is not a strategy.
Fear is not an option.
_________________
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Hope is not a strategy.
Fear is not an option.
_________________
http://vtesone.wordpress.com
ich bezog mich auf dem Beispiel von Dodge vs Cataconic Fear, wo der After-effect nicht mehr greift wegen des Dodges. Jetzt ist die Frage ob der Press ein Effekt als Teil des Strikes ist (das Manöver ist dabei egal, weil es vor der Strike-phase angesagt wird); schließlich steht es nach dem "Strike:"
"Wer Googlen kann ist klar im Vorteil"
- Männele
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LSJ in der Newsgroup dazu:
J wrote:
>>Dodge protects the striker from the effects of the opposing minions
>>strikes. Is the generation of a press from Superior Aid from Bats
>>qualify as a thing that my dodge would protect me from?
> That would affect them. Press does not affect them.
Correct. Dodge does not stop the press.
>>Elaboration of situation:
>>Minion A: Aid from bats.
>>Minion B: Dodge.
>>Minion A: Pres.
>>Minion B: no no no... if Dodge cancels catatonic fear damage I'm SURE
>>it protects press damage!
>>Minion A: ... hmmm... no I don't think so... but how do you define
>>effects that need to be prevented because they would effect your
>>minion?
>>Minion B: Good question... ok then. Press to end.
> As far as I am aware, Dodge does not beat the damage from Catatonic
> Fear.
It does. It protects the dodger from the strike.
> It also doesn't stop a press. It will stop other affects from
> being used against a vampire, ie The Withering. If this is dodged it
> will prevent the damage being resolved (it was dodged), and the card
> being placed on the vampire (the strike was dodge). The press is
> ancilary to the strike because it is not being directed at the vampire.
Correct.
J wrote:
>>Dodge protects the striker from the effects of the opposing minions
>>strikes. Is the generation of a press from Superior Aid from Bats
>>qualify as a thing that my dodge would protect me from?
> That would affect them. Press does not affect them.
Correct. Dodge does not stop the press.
>>Elaboration of situation:
>>Minion A: Aid from bats.
>>Minion B: Dodge.
>>Minion A: Pres.
>>Minion B: no no no... if Dodge cancels catatonic fear damage I'm SURE
>>it protects press damage!
>>Minion A: ... hmmm... no I don't think so... but how do you define
>>effects that need to be prevented because they would effect your
>>minion?
>>Minion B: Good question... ok then. Press to end.
> As far as I am aware, Dodge does not beat the damage from Catatonic
> Fear.
It does. It protects the dodger from the strike.
> It also doesn't stop a press. It will stop other affects from
> being used against a vampire, ie The Withering. If this is dodged it
> will prevent the damage being resolved (it was dodged), and the card
> being placed on the vampire (the strike was dodge). The press is
> ancilary to the strike because it is not being directed at the vampire.
Correct.
Ich habe noch nie etwas vergessen. Das wüsste ich.
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Das bringt mich auf eine Frage.
Schützt mich ein Dodge oder Combat ends vor dem Effekt einer Unholy Penance?
Schützt mich ein Dodge oder Combat ends vor dem Effekt einer Unholy Penance?
[PRE] As above, and put this card on the opposing minion (ranged). The striking vampire gets +1 bleed against this minion's controller. This minion may burn this card as a +1 stealth action. A minion can have only one Unholy Penance.
"Truth returns, bloated, swollen.
Then disappears - it's been STOLEN!"
Ministry - Stolen
Stephan Kelz, Prinz von Nürnberg
Then disappears - it's been STOLEN!"
Ministry - Stolen
Stephan Kelz, Prinz von Nürnberg
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